tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post8570479577706307562..comments2024-03-25T08:35:51.364-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: Optimizing the Midline OvertakeClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-9729778536884910942016-05-09T11:56:00.845-07:002016-05-09T11:56:00.845-07:00Just an update: mid-Peninsula station is no longer...Just an update: mid-Peninsula station is no longer being considered <br />http://mv-voice.com/news/2016/05/06/high-speed-rail-team-makes-whistle-stop-in-mvAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-9716640156771437762016-01-02T12:25:44.928-08:002016-01-02T12:25:44.928-08:00Or you can just build it FSSF and be done with all...Or you can just build it FSSF and be done with all that, just sayin'Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-7860365235624846882016-01-02T11:44:03.489-08:002016-01-02T11:44:03.489-08:00If a nice four track line has 14 15 maybe in some ...If a nice four track line has 14 15 maybe in some dystopian future, 16 or 17 trains an hour why is four or five trains an hour crossing the tracks a problem? <br /><br />There's other solutions besides flyovers/duckunders. Two island platforms, the train that is turning can follow the express to the center tracks and turn around in the pocket tracks. <br /><br />Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54316555339991249582016-01-02T11:33:42.150-08:002016-01-02T11:33:42.150-08:00In what world is that actually an overruling conce...In what world is that actually an overruling concern?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-33907289405488642072016-01-01T21:38:10.547-08:002016-01-01T21:38:10.547-08:00Don't have to change ends with a flyover/ducku...Don't have to change ends with a flyover/duckunder. Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-29931802739970514302016-01-01T21:23:25.913-08:002016-01-01T21:23:25.913-08:00Okay sure. You can short turn trains without eati...Okay sure. You can short turn trains without eating capacity on all tracks if you have a flyover. Which makes sense for NJT, because the NEC is SFFS anyway. But in CalTrain's case all this is more or less built from scratch.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-50634047039786365382016-01-01T17:52:44.386-08:002016-01-01T17:52:44.386-08:00Depends on how much money you want to spend.
htt...Depends on how much money you want to spend. <br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Brunswick_(NJT_station)<br /><br />Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-45473893612770692862016-01-01T17:32:08.524-08:002016-01-01T17:32:08.524-08:00And this exemplifies one of the reasons to prefer ...And this exemplifies one of the reasons to prefer FSSF - if you have the local trains on the outside, then short turns conflict with basically everything.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-36291887523856242082015-12-31T15:04:07.950-08:002015-12-31T15:04:07.950-08:00And most station should be reconstructed with two ...And most station should be reconstructed with two island platforms, instead of side platforms as in the Caltrain's Blend Operation Analysis.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-27701734919778468532015-12-31T15:02:23.250-08:002015-12-31T15:02:23.250-08:00One thing of note: all the improvements suggested ...One thing of note: all the improvements suggested by Clem can be apply to SFFS operations as well except for the tail tracks at Redwood City, where they would be located outsides of the Slow tracks instead of in the center.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-49611215312813394952015-12-23T10:44:36.143-08:002015-12-23T10:44:36.143-08:00This is what I meant: http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot...This is what I meant: http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2010/02/stacked-nonsense.htmlDoctorDothrakihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733370881962832513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-60229718769886465452015-12-22T18:37:26.642-08:002015-12-22T18:37:26.642-08:00I thinks Daniel Kufer is referring to a setup with...I thinks Daniel Kufer is referring to a setup with flyover/unders. But the current amount of SFFS track is so small that nothing like that could ever be justified on a cost basis.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-89566738372530720862015-12-22T17:59:20.125-08:002015-12-22T17:59:20.125-08:00... and how do you mean it allows a less practical...... and how do you mean it allows a less practical switch between SFFS and FSSF?Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-44017840620242171642015-12-22T17:56:56.346-08:002015-12-22T17:56:56.346-08:00What's a "2x2 tunnel or viaduct"?What's a "2x2 tunnel or viaduct"?Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-18437334389767624602015-12-22T15:48:52.594-08:002015-12-22T15:48:52.594-08:00A less practical switch between SFFS and FSSF woul...A less practical switch between SFFS and FSSF would be a 2x2 tunnel or viaduct. While it keeps a continual quad track with the width of a double track, the approaches on one end of the tunnel would have to be demolished and rebuilt if Caltrain is looking to use only FSSF or SFFS. Also I think that a 2x2 structure isn't as earthquake resistant.DoctorDothrakihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733370881962832513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-67366586203667234012015-12-22T08:34:49.640-08:002015-12-22T08:34:49.640-08:00A switch between FSSF and SFFS is, for all practic...A switch between FSSF and SFFS is, for all practical purposes, a two track section.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54044615284481991602015-12-21T13:46:16.471-08:002015-12-21T13:46:16.471-08:00Would Bayshore really be a problem going from FSSF...Would Bayshore really be a problem going from FSSF to SFFS? I'm thinking that HSR won't be traveling that fast that switching on approach to Bayshore wouldn't be a problem. In fact, this is exactly what happens today when the Bullet overtakes the local at Bayshore. On the shared northbound track leading into Bayshore, the Bullet switches to the inner passing track to bypass Bayshore (SFFS). So a northbound HSR on the outer track (FSSF) would simply switch over to the inner track leading into Bayshore becoming SFFS there.J. Wonghttp://hiptravel.biznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-39438472431317655452015-12-19T17:19:03.746-08:002015-12-19T17:19:03.746-08:00That exact sort of trade-off exercise will have to...That exact sort of trade-off exercise will have to be conducted at every station where quadruplication will occur.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-32703381370158646702015-12-19T13:53:40.698-08:002015-12-19T13:53:40.698-08:00Tracks are easy enough to move; I was more thinkin...Tracks are easy enough to move; I was more thinking about the platforms. If you consider a station like Belmont, where it clearly makes more sense to build another two tracks on the west side of the station, you have several choices.<br /><br />You could create a duplicate of the existing two tracks plus island platform to the west of the existing station, giving you an express train compatible station that works with either FSSF or SFFS.<br /><br />Or, you could demolish the existing platform, move the existing southbound track next to the existing northbound track, build an island platform in the space freed up by by the southbound track, and add two new tracks to the west, giving you an island platform FSSF local station.<br /><br />Or, you could demolish the island platform and move the existing northbound track next to the existing southbound track, build an outside platform in the space freed up by the northbound track, and add two tracks plus an outside platform to the west, giving you a SFFS local station.<br /><br />Or, you could just do a bunch of property takes to the east of the existing station, and add a track to the east and a track to the west for a FSSF local station.<br /><br />I don't know which option is the cheapest and most constructable with the fewest community impacts, but I suspect this will be a significant factor in what ultimately gets built. This time round CAHSR will be on a tighter budget and will not want to alienate the Peninsula any more than they already have done.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12769996235446036041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-68929910944483126102015-12-17T21:14:20.069-08:002015-12-17T21:14:20.069-08:00That's an excellent point. Tracks, signals and...That's an excellent point. Tracks, signals and overhead electrification can be rejiggered as needed to fit whatever substructure (e.g. grade separation) is feasible to build based on the available space and constraints to the right of way. To think of tracks, signals and poles as unmovable once they are placed isn't correct--it's a pain, but they can be moved.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-44593167089579728042015-12-17T21:07:11.913-08:002015-12-17T21:07:11.913-08:00I think the concern might be what happens when one...I think the concern might be what happens when one four-track section is extended to meet another. When there isn't a two-track section in between, suddenly SFFS meets FSSF and we have problems.<br /><br />To that, I would say that the very short SFFS sections that currently exist (Bayshore, Lawrence) can be reconfigured for a tiny fraction of the costs that would be incurred in quadrupling such a large portion of the corridor. It is a fallacy to think that the new midline overtake should be SFFS simply because Bayshore and Lawrence were built that way.<br /><br />Another argument that one could make is that the blended system will use primarily two tracks (that law isn't a joke, is it?) so that the situation of two four-track sections being extended to meet each other would never arise in the first place.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-34698616825088297042015-12-17T19:43:32.057-08:002015-12-17T19:43:32.057-08:00Switching between SFFS and FSSF is a non-issue par...Switching between SFFS and FSSF is a non-issue particularly when there are two track sections between them.<br /><br />Doors sometimes open on the right, sometimes on the left.<br /><br />And so what? ... this already occurs on Caltrain, and is very common on systems around the world.Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-86293216804809374132015-12-17T17:52:22.025-08:002015-12-17T17:52:22.025-08:00And scheduling to merge and unmerge trains, of cou...And scheduling to merge and unmerge trains, of course, has nothing to do with SFFS or FSSF.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-46972239182990094362015-12-17T16:45:28.857-08:002015-12-17T16:45:28.857-08:00For passengers, FSSF to SFFS is the same as doors ...For passengers, FSSF to SFFS is the same as doors opening on a southbound train on the west side at Hillsdale, east at Belmont, and west again at San Carlos. For trains, as F and S trains will still be sharing tracks at some locations, it's an issues scheduling to merge and unmerge the trains. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10280692412235449436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-18955506139640398852015-12-17T14:34:51.936-08:002015-12-17T14:34:51.936-08:00There should not be much of a problem, because the...There should not be much of a problem, because the 4-track section is "self contained" (well, more or less), which means that it spreads from a two-track section and joins again into a two-track section. For the passengers of the local trains, there is not much of a difference anyway… through an underpass and up to the platform.<br />Max Wysshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828566935411668866noreply@blogger.com