tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post7450756952686020265..comments2024-03-28T11:51:19.078-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: If We Had Four Billion Dollars...Clemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-80654732037286754112010-08-03T09:15:37.055-07:002010-08-03T09:15:37.055-07:00And if you're by political power, which I pres...And if you're by political power, which I presume is proportional to population, the actually useful sections of the line are also the ones with absolutely no political power since they're unpopulated. Yet the links between Southern California and the Central Valley and between the Central Valley and Northern California are what would make the HSR project worthwhile in the first place. Just building the Central Valley line, even if it's a couple hundred miles long, would still mean no train at all between LA and SF: you'd still have to transfer to a bus at Bakersfield. Likewise, it would mean the only through trains from the Bay Area to the southern Central Valley can go via Martinez and Stockton, rather than a more direct route via Altamont or Pacheco.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-73674081811880112222010-08-03T08:09:20.627-07:002010-08-03T08:09:20.627-07:00From the beginning this project has been planned a...From the beginning this project has been planned and promoted by politicians. Politicians make up the whole board membership.<br /><br />Why anyone would think that this decision, which segment to choose for phase 1, is not going to be a political one is beyond me.<br /><br />Choosing to start work in all 4 segments was a political choice, against the wishes of Morshed.<br /><br />Clem's analysis, which I agree is on target, rules out the Bay area. <br /><br />The central valley doesn't have the political power on the board to get their corridor chosen.<br /><br />Do you think, even if the Authority were to choose the central valley, the legislature would fund that corridor? I certainly don't.Morris Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-82835880615055586762010-08-02T21:49:10.360-07:002010-08-02T21:49:10.360-07:00I would be really surprised if LA - Anaheim got pi...I would be really surprised if LA - Anaheim got picked. It's even less HSR-like than the peninsula, and would be a sure sign of HSR money being pissed away on appendices when the main plot is yet to be written. If Van Ark is worth his salt, he won't allow that to happen, no matter what political machinations may be brewing within his parochial board of directors.<br /><br />Something will have to give, and I would guess that when push comes to shove, ARRA and HSIPR spending deadlines will prove surprisingly elastic.<br /><br />@anon, thanks for the tip, rumors are confirmed...Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54827165650307225902010-08-02T18:58:59.749-07:002010-08-02T18:58:59.749-07:00@ Morris
The problem with the LA-Anaheim section ...@ Morris<br /><br />The problem with the LA-Anaheim section is that it doesn't allow for sufficient testing of high-speed rail equipment. The Central Valley section really does need priority over all other sections.HSRforCalinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-85307743506489160752010-08-02T17:04:52.098-07:002010-08-02T17:04:52.098-07:00Peter: I was thinking of LGV Est costs, which were...Peter: I was thinking of LGV Est costs, which were €10.8 million per km.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-67722682872307489062010-08-02T15:30:23.886-07:002010-08-02T15:30:23.886-07:00FYI - the Caltrain corridor will be SFFS with Calt...FYI - the Caltrain corridor will be SFFS with Caltrain on the outside and HSR in the middle. The PB "Program Management Team Monthly Progress Report" notes the developments on the Caltrain corridor on pgs. 7-9. The corridor designation of SFFS is to reduce the footprint of the caltrain stations.<br /><br />http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/images/chsr/20100802093033_2010%2006%20BOARD%20MPR%20Final.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-81970940991693916062010-08-02T13:55:26.598-07:002010-08-02T13:55:26.598-07:00@ Morris
Do you think your lawsuit will still hol...@ Morris<br /><br />Do you think your lawsuit will still hold water if this approach is adopted to the construction of the project?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-40714644602308819872010-08-02T13:11:34.489-07:002010-08-02T13:11:34.489-07:00The "interesting memo" cited by Clem, is...The "interesting memo" cited by Clem, is really much more than that.<br /><br />It outlines a complete "sea change" in how van Ark wants this project to proceed.<br /><br />No longer will they be using the "shot gun" approach of starting with small construction projects in all 4 segments, but plan to pool all of their limited funds into a segment that can completed.<br /><br />If you listen to the meeting last week, part of which was piped into Judge Kopp's office, you really get the sense of all of this. Eventually there is to be a transcript that can be read and it is revealing as well. <br /><br />It would seem almost for sure that the LA section will be the one to get the go ahead; the central valley doesn't have the political pull to get it and does anyone believe that it could be operated economically without connections to LA and SF?<br /><br />For numerous reasons, as covered by Clem, the Bay Area will not be chosen.<br /><br />Thanks much for the post Clem.morris brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-84017209527879874942010-08-02T11:28:18.217-07:002010-08-02T11:28:18.217-07:00Maybe I should mention the relevance of my last co...Maybe I should mention the relevance of my last comment, in case it was not completely clear.<br /><br />I was simply giving an example of how loud a current-generation HSR train is at the 220 mph mentioned by Elizabeth.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-26801410272898778722010-08-02T09:11:59.912-07:002010-08-02T09:11:59.912-07:00@ Elizabeth
It looked to me like they are avoidin...@ Elizabeth<br /><br />It looked to me like they are avoiding building the urban aerial sections for right now. Instead they're going to bypass them and simply linking up with the existing Amtrak stations. Unless you got something different out of the meeting?<br /><br />And yes, I just saw on the German wikipedia site that the Velaro E is rated at 95 dBa at 350 km/h. It did not say how they got that value, so it might be rated differently according to the FRA guidelines.<br /><br />Speaking of which, do you happen to know when they will be releasing the new HSR noise study?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-41057265939091708092010-08-02T08:59:48.298-07:002010-08-02T08:59:48.298-07:00I would doubt that any of those sections included ...I would doubt that any of those sections included a 12 mile stretch of 60 foot elevated rail through an urban area that will need to be engineered to maintain 220 mph speeds and keep the noise at an acceptable level.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05468739359543614826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-41018485278163673222010-08-02T08:25:04.738-07:002010-08-02T08:25:04.738-07:00I'm getting about 200 km for $4 billion, based...I'm getting about 200 km for $4 billion, based on the LGV Bordeaux-Toulouse. Not sure if that has tunneled sections, though.<br /><br />In contrast, the 160 miles Merced - Bakersfield corresponds to about 256 km.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-83302998588723872212010-08-02T00:42:53.868-07:002010-08-02T00:42:53.868-07:00Peter, at tunnel-free TGV costs, $3 billion buys y...Peter, at tunnel-free TGV costs, $3 billion buys you about 140 miles, complete with electrification and signaling.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-2173171765259962182010-08-01T22:21:41.967-07:002010-08-01T22:21:41.967-07:00Someday the Cal HSR golden spike............Someday the Cal HSR golden spike............Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296808260419563238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-16180220985807236142010-08-01T20:43:19.291-07:002010-08-01T20:43:19.291-07:00@ Elizabeth.
Yeah, $3 billion for tracks plus sig...@ Elizabeth.<br /><br />Yeah, $3 billion for tracks plus signalling plus electrifications seemed a little bit low for 160 or so miles...Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-64122674759761957572010-08-01T13:53:20.712-07:002010-08-01T13:53:20.712-07:00Don't go picking out new trainsets yet. The C...Don't go picking out new trainsets yet. The Central Valley segments don't include electfication.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05468739359543614826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-22000204850690258652010-08-01T13:35:45.929-07:002010-08-01T13:35:45.929-07:00If the STRACNET was already 110 mph electrified an...If the STRACNET was already 110 mph electrified and double tracked, we wouldn't need to have the discussion of electric San Joaquins. It'd certainly help passenger trains and freight. Electric locomotives have much more horsepower than diesel. Unless I am missin something.political_incorrectnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-91465122196870729652010-08-01T13:09:00.635-07:002010-08-01T13:09:00.635-07:00"Here's an alternative idea. Spend the bi..."<i>Here's an alternative idea. Spend the big bucks on some useful section of the line first ...</i>"<br /><br />Livermore-Tracy-Stockton/Modesto?<br /><br />San Jose-Fremont-Livermore?<br /><br />Redwood City-Fremont-Livermore?<br /><br />Hillsdale?<br /><br />Transbay-Mission Bay not designed by cretins?<br /><br />What sort of utterly incompetent, grossly unprofessional organization <i>wouldn't</i> have such segments ready to go given years of advance notice?Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-73105237950265980602010-08-01T13:07:08.598-07:002010-08-01T13:07:08.598-07:00NJT and Canada's AMT is buying OCS/diesel dual...NJT and Canada's AMT is buying OCS/diesel dual-mode locomotives from Bombardier, called ALP-45DP, with prototype due this time next year.<br /><br />Also, by the time these HSR sections are done, Amtrak California's fleet would need major overhaul or replaced, so it might make sense to buy a few dual-mode locomotives to encourage piece-meal electrification along the current corridors.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-86426218701707416512010-08-01T10:50:21.501-07:002010-08-01T10:50:21.501-07:00So they'll change engines at Merced like they ...So they'll change engines at Merced like they did at New Haven for 70 years. It'll still be worth it to swap a 3000 hp diesel for an 8000 hp electric. No need for dual modes, and no use hauling the Acela around with a diesel for half the trip. Besides, electric locomotives will soon be relatively plentiful on the East Coast, while the Acela has just enough equipment to run the current timetable and have enough spares for maintenance.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-82042966758030590732010-08-01T09:25:44.196-07:002010-08-01T09:25:44.196-07:00Clem,
It is actually not true that only aerial is...Clem,<br /><br />It is actually not true that only aerial is being looked at. The transcript of the meeting, which we will post as soon as cleaned up a little bit more, makes it clear that it would be whatever comes out of the environmental process. They explicitly mention trenching. If they did trenching, it might just be a shorter distance. In general, all the distances are a little up in the air, since costing is still fairly loose.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05468739359543614826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-32668631311334074502010-08-01T09:14:47.438-07:002010-08-01T09:14:47.438-07:00James: The interim San Joaquins still have to run ...James: The interim San Joaquins still have to run on a lot of non-electrified infrastructure, so completely electric operations are out of the question. At best, we'd be able to use dual-mode locomotives, but I have my doubts that they will even acquire any new equipment.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-32493563360818075082010-08-01T01:25:06.909-07:002010-08-01T01:25:06.909-07:00If the San Joaquin were to run on the partially bu...If the San Joaquin were to run on the partially built HSR tracks, bring in Acela which runs up to 150 mph. Or put another way, what is the highest rated FRA compliant equipment which could be run on an interim basis?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296808260419563238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-62872105732795963062010-08-01T00:01:51.059-07:002010-08-01T00:01:51.059-07:00Having read the memo, it's interesting that th...Having read the memo, it's interesting that they're actually seriously considering using the HSR line to speed up San Joaquin service. It'll be neat to see a San Joaquin train running with an electric locomotive from Merced to Bakersfield, and there's really no reason that ALP-46A's couldn't be modified with ETCS signalling. I believe the California Cars are rated for 110 mph, as are the current diesels, while Amfleets and both current and future electric locomotives are rated for 125.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-2847061639945918512010-07-31T23:11:06.020-07:002010-07-31T23:11:06.020-07:00How fast can Amtrak's equipment go on HSR trac...How fast can Amtrak's equipment go on HSR tracks? Wikipedia says that the Superliners (California cars are a derivative) can get up to 100mph and the engines can go up to 110.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.com