tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post8461628621830701861..comments2024-03-28T11:51:19.078-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: The Blend, HSR StyleClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-35059958676963671372013-05-17T15:33:42.968-07:002013-05-17T15:33:42.968-07:00That would be applying logic to the problem, as wa...That would be applying logic to the problem, as was <a href="http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2011/03/millbrae-half-billion-cheaper.html" rel="nofollow">discussed here previously</a>.<br /><br />Politics and institutional dysfunction dictate otherwise, and the chances of BART relinquishing even a small part of its facility are fairly remote. Only the prospect of spending 5x to 10x the cost of the existing Millbrae facility (all in order to avoid destroying it!) would perhaps move the respective agencies to some sort of agreement.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-739114913526706792013-05-17T12:50:44.537-07:002013-05-17T12:50:44.537-07:00I don't understand why Milbrae need major reco...I don't understand why Milbrae need major reconstruction. <br />Current south bound platform have space for addtional track in the east side. Addtional northbound track can be converted from BART trucks. If they need separate between Caltrain and HSR, it can be same as current Caltrain-BART separation in the north bound tracks. Currently, 2 of 3 BART track are almost no utilization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-19608639509498218262013-05-13T13:17:43.510-07:002013-05-13T13:17:43.510-07:00I also looked at this document and Caltrain recogn...I also looked at this document and Caltrain recognizes importance of memorable 30 min frequency. <br />Why Caltrain don't implement 30 min frequency in the peak period? Current time table designed 2004~2005 when Caltrain has only 30000~35000 of daily ridership.If 60 min cycle is timetable for 30K ridership, we need 30 min cycle for 50+K ridership.<br />I would like to see more trains instead of longer train.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-39181103114549023882013-05-12T09:12:05.063-07:002013-05-12T09:12:05.063-07:00I'm looking at page 17 of the document about t...I'm looking at page 17 of the document about the Long Middle 4 Track Overtake. Unless I'm misreading this, it looks like added tracks at Millbrae are labeled "Tracks to be added (for Caltrain)". Unless the tunnels are meant to be built for Caltrain, it appears that the tunnel is off the table, at least for this analysis.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-59286721348809983162013-05-11T12:32:11.814-07:002013-05-11T12:32:11.814-07:00The assumptions are still terrible, yeah, but at l...The assumptions are still terrible, yeah, but at least they're considering not entirely eliminating CalTrain express service now.<br /><br />They show 4 tracks in Millbrae - is this still with the $2 billion tunnel?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-88366717665205621332013-05-10T15:06:59.782-07:002013-05-10T15:06:59.782-07:00Amateur Hour with LTK.
So very very bad.
Teh stu...Amateur Hour with LTK.<br /><br />So very very bad.<br /><br />Teh stupid, it hurts.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.caltrain.org/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Program/Documents/Service+Plan+Ops-Con+Study+and+Appendices-Public+Draft.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.caltrain.org/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Program/Documents/Service+Plan+Ops-Con+Study+and+Appendices-Public+Draft.pd</a><br /><br />Caltrain / California HSR Blended Operations Analysis<br />Supplemental Analysis Requested by Stakeholders<br />Service Plan / Operations Considerations Study<br />Prepared for: Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board (JPB) Prepared by: CalMod Program Team April 2013<br /><br />Garbage in, tenfold garbage out.<br /><br />("CalMod". That's Hip, daddy-o.)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-65198566315068351852013-05-08T22:17:46.290-07:002013-05-08T22:17:46.290-07:00Your criticism is applicable to any hypothetical t...Your criticism is applicable to any hypothetical timetable Caltrain has ever generated. They measure quality of a timetable in minutes of delay (a train-centric metric that measures only the reliability of service, and not its intrinsic quality) and does not account for wait times or service intervals other than through broad "x trains per hour" service levels for each stop. I am not hopeful that anybody can teach that old dog any new tricks.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-91026910070643222382013-05-08T15:56:08.933-07:002013-05-08T15:56:08.933-07:00The timetables for the Caltrain service get very i...The timetables for the Caltrain service get very irregular. In order to make room for the HSR service, Caltrain service effectively gets interrupted. A quick examination of the graphs can show you that to fit in an HSR run (with the steeper slops on the graphs), there's typically about a 20 minute interval between Caltrain runs. This means that the so-termed 6 trains per hour Caltrain service has service delays no better than what you'd get for 3 trains per hour. A twenty-minute wait for the next train is a huge addition to the mean travel time. If you presume that a typical Caltrain user goes half the distance - meaning 20 minute travel time, degrading the wait time from 10 minutes worst case/5 minute average to 20 minutes worst case/10 minutes average - you've degraded the service by 5 minute average/10 minutes worst case.<br /><br />To summarize, this wonky schedule degrades a typical service time from 25 minutes to 30 minutes average and from 30 minutes to 40 minutes worst case. <br /><br />So these typical half-system runs get 20% worse on average and 33% worse at worst case.<br /><br />The killer problem here, is that this degradation in worst case travel time makes Caltrain service inferior to automobile service - I know I can drive the half-system distance faster than this worst case travel time, why should I ever take Caltrain?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-29449570289609990932013-02-22T14:36:23.239-08:002013-02-22T14:36:23.239-08:00What would be the point?
The increase of human kn...What would be the point?<br /><br /><a href="http://xkcd.com/386/" rel="nofollow">The increase of human knowledge and welfare</a>, of course.<br /><br />Finding and publishing this information would have as much point as any other fact-based contribution (by Clem or any of the numerous informed commenters) has had on Caltrain and HSR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-56160026780606746462013-02-22T13:45:21.270-08:002013-02-22T13:45:21.270-08:0065 Market St was built after the earthquake-- befo...65 Market St was built after the earthquake-- before that, SP HQ was 4th and Townsend? Suspect no one can find a timetable showing Milepost 0 for the Coast Line at 65 Market. (What would be the point?)Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-5806908203585357292013-02-22T10:36:37.099-08:002013-02-22T10:36:37.099-08:00I thought Milepost 0 was originally One Market Str...I thought Milepost 0 was originally One Market Street, the old SP hq. Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-85053826320928761892013-02-21T16:50:06.744-08:002013-02-21T16:50:06.744-08:00Which doesn't get us any closer to an answer, ...Which doesn't get us any closer to an answer, since both Tim and I had already correctly taken into account the 0.6 mile discontinuity that Richard described.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-35998964557091216312013-02-21T13:19:57.516-08:002013-02-21T13:19:57.516-08:00Far as we know in 1950 there were no discontinuiti...Far as we know in 1950 there were no discontinuities between SF and Lick-- zero was at end of track 3rd St SF. The Sierra Pt line change added 0.04 mile circa 1956, the move to 4th St subtracted maybe 0.16, CEMOF added 0.02, and think it was UP that remileposted the whole Coast Line to be a continuation of the Elmhurst-Santa Clara-via-Mulford line. The latter led to the suspiciously-exact 0.6-mile change near Santa Clara.Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-12254489844073026912013-02-20T23:29:50.447-08:002013-02-20T23:29:50.447-08:00Re discontinuous chainage:
Caltrain Milepost (Mil...Re discontinuous chainage:<br /><br />Caltrain Milepost (Miles! in 2013!) 44.0 just north of Santa Clara station is equated to MP 44.6: ie N to S tenths of miles count "... 43.7 43.8 43.9 44.6 44.7 44.8 ..."<br />That's the only discontinuity. I don't know the reason for it, but it dates from Southern Pacific days.<br /><br />So the milepost "distance" (which itself is a convention, not a physical measurement of track length) between 4th&Townsend (MP 0.2) and San Jose Cahill Street (MP 47.5) is 47.5 - 0.2 - 0.6 = 46.7 miles, or the equivalent in furlongs and cubits.<br /><br />Santa Clara is MP 44.8, making it 44.0 milepost-miles from SF 4th&T, or 232320 spurious-precision milepost-feet.Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-12352014005400755672013-02-20T21:38:17.312-08:002013-02-20T21:38:17.312-08:00Well spotted, but probably irrelevant.
The same g...Well spotted, but probably irrelevant.<br /><br />The same graph shows "Santa Clara CT" (probably Santa Clara Caltrain, with the new platform at ~44.25 miles from 4th & King buffer stops) at 233085 feet or 44.14 miles, pretty much spot on. I don't know why the distance between SC and SJ might be off by more than a mile, but keep in mind their chainage can be discontinuous... see the SF - LA graphs for far more obvious examples. The speed graphs as given don't show where these discontinuities lie or how large they are.<br /><br />So, I didn't use the distance annotations at all. Instead, I went by the curve notches, which are clearly identifiable geographical points with a characteristic spacing. If you measure them accurately and calibrate to the corresponding mileposts, the proportional spacing shows that zero is definitely at 4th & King.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-63963095752746291262013-02-20T20:54:13.414-08:002013-02-20T20:54:13.414-08:00It's mostly a grade crossing and station platf...It's mostly a grade crossing and station platform safety thing. Running trains past crowded and unprotected platforms at 125 mph, while possible, is not something that we should encourage. 79 mph is scary enough, and 110 mph is already pushing it.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-33249386185530090462013-02-20T20:34:03.871-08:002013-02-20T20:34:03.871-08:00Assuming the track is straight enough and train ca...Assuming the track is straight enough and train capable of the speed, what is the cost of increasing speed from 110mph to 125mph? Is that a software upgrade to the signal system, or is there more to it?Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-71760429388558726492013-02-20T17:02:03.998-08:002013-02-20T17:02:03.998-08:00It's completely normal in the US to think pure...It's completely normal in the US to think purely in terms of speed limits. Some people look at me with virtual horror when I suggest that some of the old bridges on the NEC can be kept for longer and with higher speed limits if the trains are lighter. It's as if speed limits are a God-given imposition.Alonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267294744186811858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-66121293586941224412013-02-20T16:07:28.997-08:002013-02-20T16:07:28.997-08:00The SF-San Jose speed graph at the top of the arti...The SF-San Jose speed graph at the top of the article says 4th St to San Jose is 47.84 miles-- you're aware at present the distance is probably 1.1 miles less than that?Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-27670653600725122642013-02-19T18:27:01.265-08:002013-02-19T18:27:01.265-08:00The 29:55 figure assumes a slightly different set ...The 29:55 figure assumes a slightly different set of speed limits, so it's not a direct apples-to-apples comparison to 30:22. The difference is closer to 90 seconds. But your rhetorical point stands: it's not worth upgrading from 110 mph to 125 mph.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-20835719221471970832013-02-19T16:44:50.768-08:002013-02-19T16:44:50.768-08:00Note that running at 125 mph max speed SF-SJ as in...Note that running at 125 mph max speed SF-SJ as in the SF-LA runs decreases SF-SJ time from 30:22 to 29:55. What's the point of running at 125 mph if it only saves 27 seconds?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-9086575130887192112013-02-19T07:22:54.309-08:002013-02-19T07:22:54.309-08:00It's interesting that they want a limit not ba...It's interesting that they want a limit not based on noise - which is what they are trying to mitigate - but speed. These are of course directly related, but the goal should be 'no more than 80db at 50ft distance', then let them build it, and set the speed limit such that the noise is within that limit.ant6nhttp://www.cat-bus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-1524946565506664952013-02-18T23:33:44.310-08:002013-02-18T23:33:44.310-08:00He also wants HSR to use Metrolink tracks, which i...He also wants HSR to use Metrolink tracks, which is already explicitly forbidden in an agreement with UP (north of LA).Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-24541999179676920982013-02-18T18:48:20.925-08:002013-02-18T18:48:20.925-08:004h00m isn't as good as 3:15 or 2:40 but is sti...4h00m isn't as good as 3:15 or 2:40 but is still faster than driving.<br /><br />And trains are still better than kitten killing atom bombs.<br /><br />And CHSR costs less than the Vietnam War.<br /><br />So ignore the promises, ignore the timings, ignore the budget, ignore the ridership, ignore the alternatives, ignore the unexamined assumptions --- just keep funding.<br /><br />It's the only rational choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-4893425369237643312013-02-18T17:41:51.863-08:002013-02-18T17:41:51.863-08:003:15 isn't as good as 2:40 but it's still ...3:15 isn't as good as 2:40 but it's still faster than flying or driving. Very few people are going to decide to drive from LA to SF because the train ride is 3:15 instead of 2:45. Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.com