tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post568028278598185058..comments2024-03-28T11:51:19.078-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: Steaming Pile of CBOSSClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-28639299221820989892016-08-24T23:50:39.802-07:002016-08-24T23:50:39.802-07:00There is a lot of signalling work included in the ...There is a lot of signalling work included in the electrification contracts. What is and isn't part of getting CBOSS to work properly is and will be murky, and it would be easy (given the large program reserves and contingencies) for some blurring to occur, in ways that are contractually unassailable.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-25797055109630145292016-08-24T19:43:01.771-07:002016-08-24T19:43:01.771-07:00Is CBOSS embedded in the Electrification project? ...Is CBOSS embedded in the Electrification project? That is, are there parts of CBOSS that need to be finished, or redone as a function of Electrification?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-55385989261989169812016-08-14T21:12:55.173-07:002016-08-14T21:12:55.173-07:00Is this the beginning of CBOSS-Chicago?
https://m...Is this the beginning of CBOSS-Chicago?<br /><br />https://metrarail.com/riding-metra/service-updates/positive-train-control-ptc<br /><br />Oh… it is so especially complicated because the Chicago area rail network is so complex…<br />Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-52207066508798153342016-08-14T19:35:20.418-07:002016-08-14T19:35:20.418-07:00One dollop Not Invented Here, and a misplaced noti...One dollop Not Invented Here, and a misplaced notion that America is so big that only radio-based solutions can work thanks to their minimal wayside footprint.<br /><br />Even ACSES would have been cheaper than this unproven CBOSS system that is "94% done" and will remain so for some years to come, if it ever actually enters its operational phase of global uniqueness.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-7256729227183317342016-08-14T19:15:50.754-07:002016-08-14T19:15:50.754-07:00Why was Caltrain allowed to get into this mess?
P...Why was Caltrain allowed to get into this mess?<br /><br />PTC was mandated by Congress after the deadly Metrolink Chatsworth collision in September 2008. PTC was supposed to be implemented by Dec. 31, 2015, but the railroads lobbied to extend the deadline, which is now Dec 31, 2018, which would be over 10 years since the Chatsworth accident. The primary objection was the cost, possibly in the billions to equip some 70,000 miles of track.<br /><br />There are proven PTC systems in use around the world, some of which have been for decades, as has been pointed out numerous times. Why was each individual RR/Agency allowed to develop or implement their own? Why didn’t Congress, FRA, NTSB, FTA, APTA, etc. work to make use of a proven PTC system?<br /><br />It shouldn’t be this difficult, well maybe not. After all this is the automobile-centric USA, crazy regulations, buy American, etc.<br />Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-11088490234842646522016-08-14T14:24:33.849-07:002016-08-14T14:24:33.849-07:00What I would like to see is a simple spreadsheet o...What I would like to see is a simple spreadsheet of PTC systems each agency plans to use or is using. The details could include cost, track mileage, rolling stock, routes, shared with other agencies (freight or passenger), cost/mile, timeline, and any other relevant data. How does CBOSS compare to PTC for Metrolink, Chicago Metra, LIRR, Metro North, etc? I have asked Caltrain for these kinds of details a number of times, but have yet to see anything of relevance. Sure we can dig through pages upon pages of agency websites, but who has time for that? They love doing PowerPoint presentations, why can’t they provide a slide that shows such information?Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-20807269135251963812016-08-12T07:34:12.578-07:002016-08-12T07:34:12.578-07:00OK. I mistakenly thought you might have been tryin...OK. I mistakenly thought you might have been trying to make a point or add some useful information or perspective on Caltrain's CBOSS misadventure.Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-32011060498937384882016-08-12T04:25:02.154-07:002016-08-12T04:25:02.154-07:00Whatever... I just posed a simple question and m...Whatever... I just posed a simple question and made a casual remark. Can't be anymore concise than that. It's not worth any more discussion. <br />Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-61371776578047077452016-08-11T23:22:35.248-07:002016-08-11T23:22:35.248-07:00@Jeff, first you asked when Richard made the offer...@Jeff, first you asked when Richard made the offer, adding that you hadn't seen Richard at any meetings in years. Now you're guessing it wasn't a cordial. Richard's statement was simple and clear, but I don't follow what you're getting at, or its relevance. If you have a point, try stating it succinctly and clearly.Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-36368013981228917742016-08-11T20:13:10.412-07:002016-08-11T20:13:10.412-07:00Exactly!!! That's why I asked the question. ...Exactly!!! That's why I asked the question. I don't see it being a cordial conversation with all the vitriol Richard lashes out against them over the years. Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-49028926086129041562016-08-11T10:50:26.377-07:002016-08-11T10:50:26.377-07:00No that's not me, although I do support the ef...No that's not me, although I do support the efforts of CC-HSR and High Speed Boondoggle.Mike B2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-89722138274606580322016-08-11T10:46:50.529-07:002016-08-11T10:46:50.529-07:00Richard, what do you mean by that?Richard, what do you mean by that?Mike B2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-82455679849855249352016-08-11T07:19:31.251-07:002016-08-11T07:19:31.251-07:00@Jeff: Richard didn't say anything about a mee...@Jeff: Richard didn't say anything about a meeting ... believe it or not, people can converse outside of public meetings.Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-5794614853834248952016-08-11T05:03:05.056-07:002016-08-11T05:03:05.056-07:00When was that? I have not seen Richard at any C...When was that? I have not seen Richard at any Caltrain meetings in over 5 years, maybe 10 years?Jeff Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-76333194405859548382016-08-10T18:46:31.413-07:002016-08-10T18:46:31.413-07:00clickable link to peer review supporting documents...<a href="https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1iysf74hawhzoiu/AADao5P_WSGZ9fYMATHIV_o5a?dl=0" rel="nofollow">clickable link</a> to peer review supporting documents.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-72572323009325654282016-08-10T18:43:17.502-07:002016-08-10T18:43:17.502-07:00Remember how I said in the post that the list of d...Remember how I said in the post that the list of documents would make a juicy public records request? CARRD made short work of it, and Caltrain delivered:<br /><br />https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1iysf74hawhzoiu/AADao5P_WSGZ9fYMATHIV_o5a?dl=0Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-88871972029047647722016-08-10T16:18:47.082-07:002016-08-10T16:18:47.082-07:00@Mike B2 ... serial anti-HSRA suing attorney and C...@Mike B2 ... serial <a href="http://high-speedtraintalk.blogspot.com/2011/01/statement-by-attorney-mike-brady-to.html" rel="nofollow">anti-HSRA suing</a> <a href="http://www.almanacnews.com/news/2013/03/05/menlo-attorney-fighting-high-speed-rail-central-valley-projects-launch" rel="nofollow">attorney</a> and <a href="http://www.cc-hsr.org/about.html" rel="nofollow">CC-HSR board member Mike Brady</a>, is that you?Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-25630249714152031702016-08-10T13:14:31.922-07:002016-08-10T13:14:31.922-07:00Mike, no idea. No idea at all.
Mike, no idea. No idea at all.<br />Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-60828754954476874382016-08-10T13:09:57.476-07:002016-08-10T13:09:57.476-07:00... CBOSS wouldn't be operational ...... CBOSS <i>wouldn't</i> be operational ...Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-6407414989808548322016-08-10T13:07:39.507-07:002016-08-10T13:07:39.507-07:00Fun fact: I offered the former Caltrain CEO (under...Fun fact: I offered the former Caltrain CEO (under whose oversight and leadership CBOSS was conceived and approved) a wager of a year's salary (his or mine) that CBOSS would be operational within two years of the advertised date, nor would it come in within 50% of budget.<br /><br />Oddly enough, he wouldn't take my bet.Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-78291721628667538042016-08-10T10:47:59.544-07:002016-08-10T10:47:59.544-07:00Sorry used the wrong link. Use this for JPB meeti...Sorry used the wrong link. Use this for JPB meeting: https://youtu.be/UDyOwIdSoNU?t=9Mike B2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-65451062959662671752016-08-10T10:43:44.481-07:002016-08-10T10:43:44.481-07:00CBOSS is a stinking pile of crap.
So what can be ...CBOSS is a stinking pile of crap.<br /><br />So what can be done about it? I have mentioned that it should be brought out in the open through one of the local TV stations investigative units. I suggested and communicated with NBC 11, since they have already investigated Samtrans for questionable accounting practices, but I can't provide the technical expertise on this stuff. Someone has not yet taken the ball and ran with it. Are Clem, Richard or Roland for real? Or is it that your arguments don't hold any water?<br /><br />I watched the video of the JPB meeting: https://youtu.be/PPdDRL8e0aw<br /><br />Roland mentions something about cover-ups, the federal grand jury, etc. The CBOSS fiasco has made the front page of the Palo Alto Daily Post. So when is the serious investigation of Caltrain management going to begin? What about former judge Quentin Kopp? He supports HSR but questions the so-called blended plan. Something needs to be done to stop the lunatic fringe at Caltrain before they sink all our tax money and transportation system into the ground.Mike B2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54323892764176191922016-08-09T23:41:47.321-07:002016-08-09T23:41:47.321-07:00"It has all the costs of a ... plus ... Truly..."<i>It has all the costs of a ... plus ... Truly the gift that keeps on giving. Overlay away!</i>"<br /><br />It's even better than that!<br /><br />Bundled into the "electrification" budget (and one should also use scare-quotes around "budget", because they've already blown it out many times, even starting at an unsupportable crazy high level at which it already had negative return!) is <b>total replacement of all the lineside signals and track circuits and relay-based "control points"</b>.<br /><br />Because what the world needs is more track circuits with old fashioned insulated joints and impedance bonds. And relays. (Relays!) And lineside signals. And new lineside signals, because the electrification masts and portals (so so many of them!) get in the way of then old ones. Because without all of this, without the relays and the track circuits and the many many lineside signals, what would CB<b>O</b>SS have to <b>O</b>verlay with?<br /><br />You can't make this shit up. But they did. They keep making up more shit, and getting away with it. Many hundreds of millions of dollars of shit, in a huge steaming shit pile that keeps growing and growing and growing to the heavens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-563447888909922632016-08-09T19:09:23.490-07:002016-08-09T19:09:23.490-07:00That's why Caltrain is doing an overlay PTC sy...That's why Caltrain is doing an overlay PTC system. It has all the costs of a bleeding-edge communications-based solution, plus the O&M expense of a full set of conventional line side signals! Truly the gift that keeps on giving. Overlay away!Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-57165059740464148032016-08-09T17:41:34.175-07:002016-08-09T17:41:34.175-07:00@Mike B: ETCS Level 2 is communication-based. It u...@Mike B: ETCS Level 2 is communication-based. It uses, however, Balises to improve the precision of the determination of the actual position. (this eliminates the incertainity of GPS positioning). <br /><br />The problem with LZB is that it is very expensive; way more than ETCS L2. With LZB, it is possible to run moving blocks, and the position of the train is always known with sufficient precision.<br /><br />TVM430 is extremely inflexible, with fixed blocks, and less capacity than ETCS L2. It also has a very limited number of line speeds, and upgrades are complicated. In fact, the bad accident last year with the test train on the Paris - Strasbourg line required to deactivate TVM430, and thus lose all protection (with fatal results, as shown).<br /><br />Comparable overspeed tests in the Gotthard Base Tunnel were run under full protection of ETCS, by adjusting some parameters, such as maximum speed for line and vehicle. Sure, the modifications are not for daily changes, but there was no (fast) test run in the Gotthard Base Tunnel which was not fully protected by ETCS. <br /><br />There is a "low cost" variant of ETCS, namely some kind of Level 3 (which includes the integrity of the train), used with (D)MUs on secondary lines. Such a low-capacity system can be set up pretty cheaply.<br /><br />Communication-based signalling does cost less than conventional signalling, because of the much reduced amount of fixed installations, which not only are expensive in procurement, but also in operation.<br />Max Wysshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828566935411668866noreply@blogger.com