tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post445149327668676162..comments2024-03-25T08:35:51.364-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: Compatibility, Done BackwardsClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-17980018003773862842014-11-16T20:17:17.476-08:002014-11-16T20:17:17.476-08:00One by one SEPTA is raising the platforms. (They ...One by one SEPTA is raising the platforms. (They were pretty much locked into 48" platforms a long time back, by the Pennsylvania Railroad designs for Suburban and 30th St stations.) Eventually they'll all be 48", though they're not sure what to do with some of the problem stations like Tacony (I have no idea how it was originally operated, but it's a nightmare now, with passengers walking across a freight track to board the passenger trains).Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-18137287789814078472014-11-16T20:15:05.728-08:002014-11-16T20:15:05.728-08:00Advocates for the disabled consider "recessed...Advocates for the disabled consider "recessed mini-highs" to be an abomination. For what it's worth. Nobody wants them.<br /><br />I wonder if it's possible to get CPUC's idiotic rule thrown out as contrary to the ADA, since the ADA is a *later* federal law and as such probably supersedes it?Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-83950014056492315762014-09-28T13:52:36.671-07:002014-09-28T13:52:36.671-07:00Neat? Maybe. Depends how much a fan you are of e...Neat? Maybe. Depends how much a fan you are of elaborate workarounds for self-inflicted problems.<br /><br />Mechanically simple? Not remotely.<br /><br />Novel? No.<br /><br />Capable of being maintained at high reliability by Caltrain's commuter railroading style contractors? Not a snowball's chance.<br /><br />(Regular failures of primitive diesel locomotives. Endemic flat spots on wheels throughout the fleet. All with high ratio of out-of-service to in-service equipment and an extremely high ratio of headcount to fleet size.)<br /><br />Or look at Muni's experience -- or more accurately at <i>Muni riders' experience</i> with moving steps and mistaken high-level platforms.<br /><br />Korea is whole different planet. (And that's assuming their maintenance/reliability/cost is acceptable, which is suggested only by "grass is greener" prejudice, rather than by data.)Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-84582240526072426452014-09-25T19:57:59.250-07:002014-09-25T19:57:59.250-07:00looks neat and mechanically simple. Caltrain needs...looks neat and mechanically simple. Caltrain needs to put retractable steps such as this in the RFI in order to consider the trade-offs and finally enable it to start considering level-boarding transition strategies.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-40453826707337024902014-09-25T19:02:31.886-07:002014-09-25T19:02:31.886-07:00You'll have to ask Korail. But being that the...You'll have to ask Korail. But being that they are designed by Hitachi, they should be reasonably reliable with proper maintenance. Likely no more complicated than plug doors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-150483685390114112014-09-25T17:51:10.013-07:002014-09-25T17:51:10.013-07:00At least SEPTA manages to do something even if it ...At least SEPTA manages to do something even if it is only once or twice a decadeAdirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-1709132236940573712014-09-24T22:03:42.589-07:002014-09-24T22:03:42.589-07:00Looks like a lot of moving parts. How reliable/ma...Looks like a lot of moving parts. How reliable/maintenance intensive are they?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-66608261487355959702014-09-24T22:00:46.094-07:002014-09-24T22:00:46.094-07:001) I don't think I'd take SEPTA regional r...1) I don't think I'd take SEPTA regional rail as an example of how to do anything.<br /><br />2) We really need a solution that doesn't involve someone having to manually change each door to go from hight to low platforms.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-84190239970199016552014-09-24T18:26:28.993-07:002014-09-24T18:26:28.993-07:00You're not supposed to walk outside the white ...You're not supposed to walk outside the white line while the train is moving. Maybe in the US they would have to mark it in some really glaring way.ant6nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845727393148967959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-77377978118828822252014-09-24T07:09:32.087-07:002014-09-24T07:09:32.087-07:00FWIW, fully automatic doors/steps for both high le...FWIW, fully automatic doors/steps for both high level and low level boarding:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBXUUYPy1bAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-14849864134393734782014-09-23T22:09:23.918-07:002014-09-23T22:09:23.918-07:00For the past century, give or take a decade or two...For the past century, give or take a decade or two. It's just awful Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-36384512897302582852014-09-23T21:35:40.565-07:002014-09-23T21:35:40.565-07:00Good stuff! The Swiss have done this sort of plat...Good stuff! The Swiss have done this sort of platform raising. (Yeah yeah I know always the Swiss... but chances are if it has the least bit of innovation, they've done it). I don't see any fatal flaw in this scheme, just some issues to consider like ADA railing and platform strikes, which will ultimately require an extensible gap-filler step on the new EMUs. Whether Caltrain knows this yet or not.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-79305050273476024812014-09-23T14:33:12.375-07:002014-09-23T14:33:12.375-07:00How?How?Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554637052654741365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-84299344922347747732014-09-23T13:44:03.252-07:002014-09-23T13:44:03.252-07:00SEPTA, SEPTA for gawd's sake, manages to insta...SEPTA, SEPTA for gawd's sake, manages to install level boarding, without drama. Adirondacker12800https://www.blogger.com/profile/17108712932656586797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-12352041803389587502014-09-23T12:55:15.352-07:002014-09-23T12:55:15.352-07:00I was thinking like 25cm x 250cm x 250cm boxes.I was thinking like 25cm x 250cm x 250cm boxes.ant6nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845727393148967959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-44322039863542695222014-09-23T11:55:03.153-07:002014-09-23T11:55:03.153-07:00One big issue is that a step at the platform edge ...One big issue is that a step at the platform edge increases the already existing safety hazard. The step would likely have to be wide enough that the inattentive would not trip and fall onto the tracks. A railing (with gaps) might be required on the station side of the step. As a result, they would have to be more like mini-platforms than steps, which means they are going to be more expensive and fairly heavy. Building them from precast concrete sections would allow the weight to be reduced, but there would still likely be structural issues with some or all of the existing platforms. And, of course, the resulting mini-platforms would get push back from those wanting to maintain the purity of historical stations.<br /><br />South Francisco, Atherton, and possibly other stations would require extensive changes (or closed) as part of any platform raising process.<br />Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554637052654741365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54839639155591462862014-09-23T10:59:49.551-07:002014-09-23T10:59:49.551-07:00Forget the diagram for a second, you seem to be mi...Forget the diagram for a second, you seem to be missing something. Adding a 10 inch platform step simply places it flush with the first step for both the gallery and Bombardier cars. No need for any extending steps during the first stage transition, all existing equipment will work with 8 inch and 18 inch ATOR platforms. Once all platforms have 10 inch steps, EMUs with 25 inch floors can be introduced, without need for extending steps, as they are now only a 7 inch step up from the added platform step. The Bombardier cars can then have their bottom steps removed, no need to do all at once. Once the gallery cars have been replaced by EMUs, and all of the Bombardier cars have had their lower steps removed, 25 inch platforms can be constructed on a station by station basis, again, no need for extending steps, as all cars at that point will be compatible with both 18 inch and 25 inch ATOR platforms. <br /><br />There are obviously issues that could be brought up with respect to this scheme, but the need for extending steps doesn't appear to be one of them. Where do you see it needed?Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554637052654741365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-73283560745248628972014-09-23T07:58:19.764-07:002014-09-23T07:58:19.764-07:00No many how many times different people write the ...No many how many times different people write the same thing, it still can not work.<br /><br />Look at the diagram in this article.<br /><br />See Stage "2 During Transition. We have a problem."<br /><br />Think about it.<br /><br />The problem exists for <i>every</i> platform height and exists unless there are either extending steps on either the new and/or the old equipment during transition. (OK. The platform itself could move instead ...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-82185874968375184432014-09-22T23:30:31.572-07:002014-09-22T23:30:31.572-07:00A CPUC waiver would still be required, of course. ...A CPUC waiver would still be required, of course. The steps could be broken up into precast sections, with pins cast into the bottom of the steps that match holes drilled in the existing platforms, making them relatively inexpensive and non-disruptive to put in place. The one issue is that while such steps would also be flush with the lower steps of the gallery cars, they would interfere with the operation of the wheelchair lifts. A gap could be left at the existing (gallery) wheelchair loading areas, which (conveniently) won't match up with the doors on the Bombardier cars or future EMUs. As the (stepless) EMUs are delivered, the gallery cars could be seamlessly phased out.<br /><br />Nice idea, but likely far too simple for anyone at Caltrain to take seriously, I have to admit...Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554637052654741365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-77655272612441560892014-09-22T21:22:38.684-07:002014-09-22T21:22:38.684-07:001) put a 10" step along all platforms, along ...1) put a 10" step along all platforms, along the full width (basically just a bunch of boxes). From there it's a 7" step to new 25"-equipment, and and it's flush with the lower stop of existing Bombardier equipment.<br />2) convert all the Bombardier equipment to 25" without step (i.e. just raise the lower step to the car-floor height)<br />3) convert all platforms from 8" + 10" step to 25".Ant6nhttp://www.cat-bus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-73255982032218888072014-09-21T18:59:14.676-07:002014-09-21T18:59:14.676-07:00How do they manage to spend $30k on those things? ...How do they manage to spend $30k on those things? It's a slab of concrete with a couple of railings.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-45027391304832707682014-09-20T17:44:04.164-07:002014-09-20T17:44:04.164-07:00Regarding the cost of mini-highs...
PCJPB award 4...Regarding the cost of mini-highs...<br /><br />PCJPB award 4 December 2003<br />$266,893 to William P. Young Construction, Inc. of Concord<br />Contract "04-PCJPB-C-015 Fabrication and Installation of Mini-High Platforms at Various Stations"<br />for a grand total of 9 (9-ish) mini-high platforms:<br /><br />Millbrae (2)<br />Palo Alto (2)<br />Mountain View (2)<br />SJ Cahill (3, counting a "double-wide" serving both sides of island platform as two.)<br /><br />So about $30k each in 2003 dollars, installed. I was high by a factor of five!!Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-49692648653838131402014-09-20T15:15:06.998-07:002014-09-20T15:15:06.998-07:00There's no point expensively retrofitting anyt...There's no point expensively retrofitting anything mechanical on the unpowered Bombardier cars.<br />They're going to be scrap for 10 or 20 years by the time level boarding happens. (ie WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER, per "don't bother us, we're the professionals" of Caltrain.)<br />Even if hell froze over tomorrow, there's <a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8RmKSqi3V2Q/U74WwAjEu9I/AAAAAAAAA1s/qIh2LtgQTX4/s1600/platform_transition.png" rel="nofollow">only one <b>remotely</b> feasible transition strategy that anybody has ever shown</a>, and that is still not going to be completed within the economic lifetime of the Bombardiers.<br />Also consider: cost of retrofitting anything, including Caltrain "agency overhead" and a hundred of their consultants, is going to be close to the value of the entire car! ($300k today as we know from Metrolink cast-offs; even less tomorrow.)<br /><br />In contrast, there is a huge point in building in some SIMPLE level-boarding mechanisms into a brand new half billion dollar order of EMUs.<br />First because the EMUs will be around when CPUC-non-platform to real level-boarding transition finally happens.<br />Second because the EMUs will require some sort of gap filler for ADA even after all platforms are at level-boarding level.<br />Third because designing things in (that's called "planning", and is something that Caltrain has never ever once done) is always cheaper and simpler and more reliable that trying to mess with stupid legacy messes.<br /><br />Planning.<br />Planning.<br />Planning.<br /><br />The only place we get to see <i>any</i> of that is in the articles of this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-2911133993871451792014-09-20T13:26:58.775-07:002014-09-20T13:26:58.775-07:00Apparently UTA's FrontRunner doesn't have ...Apparently UTA's FrontRunner <a href="http://archnexus.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/2010sustainabilityreport_uta-frontrunner.jpg" rel="nofollow">doesn't have level boarding at all stations either</a>. Their doors must have some sort of extendable step, too. Perhaps Caltrain could adopt a similar system for the transition?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-37665655784130001332014-09-17T20:32:48.767-07:002014-09-17T20:32:48.767-07:00I recall how proud staff was about their forward-l...I recall how proud staff was about their forward-lookingness in designing the newly-relocated Hayward Park station platforms to more readily accommodate an extra track (only one extra -- not two, IIRC).Reality Checkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974156676436895262noreply@blogger.com