tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post2702278229484085967..comments2024-03-17T12:42:36.234-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: The Prescriptive Framework: System RequirementsClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-57060409612268815892010-10-24T12:00:01.280-07:002010-10-24T12:00:01.280-07:00The ADA doesn't mandate access to all parts of...The ADA doesn't mandate access to all parts of the traincar, does it? Just level boarding with wheelchair spaces provided at the entry level.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-54339308874092856612010-10-24T11:51:18.307-07:002010-10-24T11:51:18.307-07:00Anyway, I was wondering about the ADA. Seems to me...<em>Anyway, I was wondering about the ADA. Seems to me if you mandate access to all areas of the train car, you pretty much ban multilevel cars, no? </em><br /><br />There are new ADA compliant multilevels running in the Northeast. Commuter cars but they are used in intercity service now and then. (Amtrak leases them for peak service )Adirondacker12800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-79845695755432237142010-10-24T01:17:35.560-07:002010-10-24T01:17:35.560-07:00Actually, I figured 4 trips/hour*2 directions*16 h...Actually, I figured 4 trips/hour*2 directions*16 hours/day / (4 one-way trips/train/day) = 32 trains<br /><br />(I used slightly different assumptions the first time)<br /><br />Anyway, I was wondering about the ADA. Seems to me if you mandate access to all areas of the train car, you pretty much ban multilevel cars, no? Otherwise you'd need a lift in every car, and the design would be very constrained, which seems unworkable. Does the ADA actually require that, or is it enough that there are available facilities?Alaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12332608117322342590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-3889495413821027642010-10-23T13:52:36.231-07:002010-10-23T13:52:36.231-07:00Right. In a nutshell, trains run both ways. Alai...Right. In a nutshell, trains run both ways. Alai's calculation was for one way only.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-57486838631300450572010-10-22T14:13:52.726-07:002010-10-22T14:13:52.726-07:00CAHSR plans is to run trains much more frequently ...CAHSR plans is to run trains much more frequently than every 15 minutes. They think they'll have about 10 tph peak; with a 7-hour roundtrip, including turnaround time, it corresponds to 70 trainsets.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-7032202588440119572010-10-22T10:51:20.660-07:002010-10-22T10:51:20.660-07:00100 trainsets? Isn't that a lot? Even if they ...100 trainsets? Isn't that a lot? Even if they run trains every 15 minutes, 6 am to midnight, that's only 72 runs, and you figure trains would make two or even three trips...<br /><br />I would think that they would have 25 or so trainsets, at least in the beginning, with more as popularity and/or additional lines warranted.Alaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12332608117322342590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-85485583902850578192010-09-07T22:32:37.614-07:002010-09-07T22:32:37.614-07:00The system standards were clearly designed to requ...The system standards were clearly designed to require the minimum number of exemptions from existing regulations.<br /><br />That said, Richard's complaints about turnouts appear to be unjustified. There's some very exact analysis of wheel profile, rail profile, and wheel/rail profile -- one of the few places where the standard didn't just say "we satisfied both EU and US rules" -- and the choice of turnout specs is driven by that. Just because it's AREMA doesn't mean it's totally hopeless, it was checked that it was Euro-standard-compliant.<br /><br />Half the report from the standards document is comparing different standards.<br /><br />---<br /><br />The new Amtrak bilevel "standard" was designed even more obviously to meet existing standards without requiring *any* changes, which is unfortunate. It's also quite absurd that they're still planning to prevent wheelchair-bound passengers from reaching the upper deck; this is probably an ADA violation *per se*. It's a deeply unimaginative design. It's basically Superliner III. As such, well, it is what it is, and I had hoped for better.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-82380195548190435862010-09-05T15:41:40.326-07:002010-09-05T15:41:40.326-07:00A hundred trainsets is 800 cars. Companies have se...A hundred trainsets is 800 cars. Companies have set up new factories for smaller orders for the New York City Subway.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-67360906995644864922010-09-05T00:47:49.125-07:002010-09-05T00:47:49.125-07:00"Remember the CAHSR fleet will only be about ..."Remember the CAHSR fleet will only be about 100 trainsets, probably not even worth setting up a new factory."<br /><br />The companies are not counting on the California high speed rail system as being the only one in the U.S. They expect other lines to be built, even with the current pull back due to deficit concerns. Gas prices will go up again and those companies vying for the all-fat contract are banking on being ready to supply other projects that will be funded once gas prices do increase.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-77391920482762090362010-09-04T16:58:31.552-07:002010-09-04T16:58:31.552-07:00Error! Bookmark not found.Error! Bookmark not found.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-34382663019234201142010-09-04T15:40:21.163-07:002010-09-04T15:40:21.163-07:00It took effort to actually locate the trumpeted 12...It took effort to actually locate the trumpeted 125mph Amtrak superdreadnaught standards; for the they-can't-possibly-be-serious horror experience see<br /><a href="http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/DocsSpecs.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/DocsSpecs.aspx</a> and<br /><a href="http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/Section305Committee.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/Section305Committee.aspx</a><br />(W*rd format documents on M$ servers: always a hallmark of quality!)Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-37546839138853101512010-09-04T15:18:14.962-07:002010-09-04T15:18:14.962-07:00Re antediluvian US freight standards and FSSF and ...Re antediluvian US freight standards and FSSF and screwing over Caltrain and peninsula passenger service, forever, without justification:<br /><br />What (should be) most amazing about this (but isn't), is the degree to which the Peninsula Rail Program's extremely ethical and highly skilled US rail transportation professionals will <b>outright lie</b> in their so-called alternatives "analysis" (see <a href="http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/images/chsr/20100805081646_SF-SJ%20Supplemental%20AA%20Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">Supplemental AA</a> page S-9 and the extraordinary, not-even-appearing-to-try, utterly transparent, trivially contradicted, outright mendacity of Bob Doty's <a href="http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/images/chsr/20100805173357_CHSRA%20Board%20presentation%20FINAL%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf" rel="nofollow">presentation</a> pp 15-16), rather than just come out and say "we're screwing you over because of freight; we don't care about Caltrain; here's the AREMA turnout standard, the one that works so awesomely for connecting grain silo spurs tracks to the main line in Nebraska, so suck it down." Why even <i>bother</i> at all with the ridiculously easily seen through lies about narrower rights of way and clear implications of significant additional private property takings?<br /><br />Perhaps they just <i>enjoy</i> putting out transparent lies for the hell of it, or enjoy putting out laughably bullshit justifications as taunting sport (Check this out! we said 124' is narrower than 104' and <i>we actually got away with it</i>! Yuck yuck yuck! Or how about this one? We said that running HS trains to San Francisco rather than stopping them in Fremont will <i>lose riders</i> and the judge bought it! Try to top that!) rather than coming out and saying that what their intent is (screw regional transportation; maximize cost) and providing "technical" justifications in their "analyses" that can at least withstand the effort of 15 seconds with a pocket calculator.Richard Mlynarikhttp://www.pobox.com/users/mly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-47537436631833345342010-09-04T14:59:19.228-07:002010-09-04T14:59:19.228-07:00Sure there are US manufacturers: US Railcar, plus ...Sure there are US manufacturers: US Railcar, plus the North American divisions of Kawasaki, Bombardier, and Alstom. Those get a leg up on companies without factories producing FRA-compliant equipment, for no good reason. The NEC doesn't need unpowered coaches weighing 150,000 pounds; it needs EMUs weighing 90,000 pounds.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-36616716233078105222010-09-04T12:49:57.457-07:002010-09-04T12:49:57.457-07:00Thanks for the links, I think I get the switch iss...Thanks for the links, I think I get the switch issue now. I agree, it seems ridiculous that they allow and accommodate that kind of hollow wear. But why not just have the bump on the curved switch rail, and achieve the same effect on the straight switch rail by dipping the curved stock rail? That also builds in a certain amount of cant into the turnout route, which might be a good thing, and the precision of the track geometry matters a lot less at the very low speeds typical of turnout routes at siding switches.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-36132737327863547742010-09-04T10:51:02.824-07:002010-09-04T10:51:02.824-07:00Nevertheless it is worrisome that FRA is circling ...<em>Nevertheless it is worrisome that FRA is circling the wagons to protect US manufacturers. That sort of regulatory protectionism (on top of the existing Buy America rules) will only make a commodity product even more expensive for us taxpayers.</em><br /><br />There are no US manufacturers of passenger cars. The MTA, NJTransit, SEPTA etc. pay world prices from world manufacturers for cars assembled in the US. Amtrak and the FRA aren't aiming for California's or Florida's High Speed rail. They are aiming for cars that can run on track that is good, right now, for 125. The NEC for instance and the bits and pieces connected to the NEC or Chicago.Adirondacker12800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-16803286281451905252010-09-04T08:46:18.683-07:002010-09-04T08:46:18.683-07:00@Tim: thanks.
@Morris, Facts, those specs are for...@Tim: thanks.<br /><br />@Morris, Facts, those specs are for 125 mph bilevel cars. Sort of a Chevy Tahoe, compared to the Porsche Panamera of high-speed rail.<br /><br />Nevertheless it is worrisome that FRA is circling the wagons to protect US manufacturers. That sort of regulatory protectionism (on top of the existing Buy America rules) will only make a commodity product even more expensive for us taxpayers. Remember the CAHSR fleet will only be about 100 trainsets, probably not even worth setting up a new factory.<br /><br />As for right of way in Menlo Park, it's a yawner. The necessary strip of land on the west side will be acquired, bada bing, bada boom, as simple as that. MP is the least of the challenges ahead.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-87840905531246692482010-09-03T18:20:06.457-07:002010-09-03T18:20:06.457-07:00@ Morris
Are these new standardized bi-level cars...@ Morris<br /><br />Are these new standardized bi-level cars supposed to be the same ones from facts, not wishes' link earlier?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-34233904157783695962010-09-03T15:22:25.915-07:002010-09-03T15:22:25.915-07:00About that quarter-inch-- I guess Clem figured we ...About that quarter-inch-- I guess Clem figured we could get off our butts and learn about it ourselves. Try this<br /><br />http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2268116Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-14013015670148653982010-09-03T14:24:08.975-07:002010-09-03T14:24:08.975-07:00I just picked up this link:
http://ohsonline.com/...I just picked up this link:<br /><br />http://ohsonline.com/articles/2010/09/03/new-standards-for-high-speed-railcars-unveiled.aspx?admgarea=news<br /><br />with the title<br /><br />New Standards for High-Speed Railcars UnveiledMorris Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-63322207309663937142010-09-03T11:19:41.242-07:002010-09-03T11:19:41.242-07:00Ooops, sorry. That ^^^ last link needs to have a ...Ooops, sorry. That ^^^ last link needs to have a subscription to read the abstract. <a href="http://www.masstransitmag.com/print/Mass-Transit/Keeping-Your-Passengers-on-the-Rail/1$7337" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is another article for you to read on wheel/rail interaction.Eric Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-1041603730819068102010-09-03T11:12:56.280-07:002010-09-03T11:12:56.280-07:00Arcady, here you go. Some reading for you.Arcady, <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V5B-4FD0Y70-4&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F01%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1450094795&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ab915efb2b8a1c7341498f380b3711a5&searchtype=a" rel="nofollow">here</a> you go. Some reading for you.Eric Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-42894875710638558792010-09-03T10:28:51.859-07:002010-09-03T10:28:51.859-07:00I guess nobody wants to tell me about hollow wear ...I guess nobody wants to tell me about hollow wear and the wheel rail interface. Oh well. You can all go back to picking on Morris Brown and ranting about incompetence.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-27895989628947157712010-09-02T13:35:24.451-07:002010-09-02T13:35:24.451-07:00Actually, I think Peter's point is quite astut...Actually, I think Peter's point is quite astute, even if raised in a humorous manner. The land beneath the aerials has a number of potential uses. Parking is one. PCJPB/CHSRA could "gift" the spaces to the local community rent-free as a gesture of good will.<br /><br />The land still has fewer potential uses than if there were a tunnel. But the land value in these areas is nowhere near high enough to justify tunneling.mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-10827693052062864552010-09-01T22:34:14.481-07:002010-09-01T22:34:14.481-07:00@Morris: freight service abandonment is no mean fe...@Morris: freight service abandonment is no mean feat, and requires approval from the STB. The STB will listen to peninsula customers and deny the abandonment unless somebody (exactly <i>who</i> is the bone of contention, but I argue it ought to be the PCJPB) pays those customers a handsome amount of money to go away. That would be money very well spent, even if it is many millions. In the meantime, it is more financially advantageous for UPRR to continue serving the peninsula with a poor bottom line, rather than get embroiled in an expensive legal fight.<br /><br />@facts not wishes, it would be nice if you could elaborate on your claim that UPRR makes a profit on its peninsula operations, or even that UPRR wishes to continue the operation. I have it from reliable sources that they do not.<br /> <br />@everyone: stop taunting Morris please, this isn't a school yard. Keep telling yourself that if he can't kill HSR, he will have made it better.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-35274257259213104742010-09-01T22:28:09.955-07:002010-09-01T22:28:09.955-07:00Hell, a 4-track aerial might take up only 78.5 fee...Hell, a 4-track aerial might take up only 78.5 feet, according to the typical cross-sections. They'd only have to take 3.5 feet from Stone Pine Lane. Possibly wouldn't even touch the street.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.com