tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post1179848321819239410..comments2024-03-28T11:51:19.078-07:00Comments on Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog: The Canyonero of SignalsClemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-8204555553524858862014-02-12T00:06:24.333-08:002014-02-12T00:06:24.333-08:00http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Former-Sa...http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Former-SamTrans-Accountant-Alleges-Second-Set-of-Books-Hid-Millions-245023631.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-79979931417586328312014-02-11T13:00:14.905-08:002014-02-11T13:00:14.905-08:00Anonymous, Richard Mlynarik, Clem, Kiwi, et al.......Anonymous, Richard Mlynarik, Clem, Kiwi, et al.........<br /><br />If CBOSS, Caltrain electrification costs, signal bridges, etc, etc, are “brain dead” “brain damaged, short sighted, misfeasance” “just plain wrong,” then why don't you bring this to the attention of NBC Bay Area 11? Or bring it up to the State Attorney General? The Civil Grand Jury? The GAO?<br /><br />I saw a teaser on NBC Bay Area 11 this morning about Questionable accounting practice at Samtrans/Caltrain. The investigative report will air this evening Tue. Feb 11, 2014, on the late 11pm newscast after the Olympics. If NBC were to investigate CBOSS, electrification, etc, maybe you would see some action regarding your concerns, and the concerns would reach a wide ranging audience instead of the limited audience here.<br />Palo Altonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-60344041486708863612014-02-08T18:33:14.836-08:002014-02-08T18:33:14.836-08:00What? you mean the !10-year-old CTC project was t...What? you mean the !10-year-old CTC project was to install 19ith-century *line-side signals*? In the 21st century?<br />Words fail me.kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-48551096937647808522014-02-08T16:45:18.062-08:002014-02-08T16:45:18.062-08:00Caltrain does not have in-cab signalling today. Th...Caltrain does not have in-cab signalling today. The engineer must view the signal aspect, call it out on the radio if it is restricting, and have it acknowledged by the conductor. Obeying the signal aspect (or not, heaven forbid) is entirely up to the engineer. It's very 19th century.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-68801385806454581032014-02-07T20:44:00.192-08:002014-02-07T20:44:00.192-08:00Caltrain has in-cab signalling. Surely Caltrain d...Caltrain has in-cab signalling. Surely Caltrain didn't install a new, two-track, bidirectional signal gantry, just for the three UP trains per day ?!<br />kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-7037972098505817352014-02-07T20:40:24.271-08:002014-02-07T20:40:24.271-08:00"Do FRA regs require lineside signals in terr..."Do FRA regs require lineside signals in territory where in-cab signalling and ATP are deployed and required?"<br /><br />Nope. I think Metro-North and Amtrak still have 'em at "home signals" for interlockings, but apart from that, both have been allowed to just rip out all the other signals. I doubt the home signals are required either.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-78772040610177794692014-02-07T20:33:24.042-08:002014-02-07T20:33:24.042-08:00Seriously, most railroads are going to CAB SIGNALS...Seriously, most railroads are going to CAB SIGNALS everywhere except interlockings. (Where there are red lights for redundancy, just in case.)<br />Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-64624623147352849942014-01-27T19:14:53.162-08:002014-01-27T19:14:53.162-08:00@ Anonymous again:
Perhaps the reason Caltrain st...@ Anonymous again:<br /><br />Perhaps the reason Caltrain still needs lineside signals, is for the freight trains that'll be running in their time-separated windows? Do FRA regs require lineside signals in territory where in-cab signalling and ATP are deployed and required?<br />kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-39386992168970844802014-01-27T19:12:32.485-08:002014-01-27T19:12:32.485-08:00@Anonymous who wries "CBOSS":
No. Not ...@Anonymous who wries "CBOSS":<br /><br />No. Not $250 million of Cantrain-speciifc, Caltrain-unique, Advanced In-Cab Control and Signalling. A substantial chunk of the money is going to installing the base ITCS (from the very same contractors who brought us BART AATC). Another subsantial chunk goes to replacing all the communications and coded-track-circuits (yes, they're there) with replacements which can withstand interference from 25kV AC electrification.<br /><br />Only part of the cost -- I don't recall well enough to guess, but maybe $100m? -- is for the special-to-Caltrain, Caltrain-unique, changes to ITCS to allow it to put crossing-barriers down n Menlo Park, behind a train which has passed through said barrier and is now stopped at the platform.<br /><br />Of course, ITCS is unique to just Amtrak in Michigan, and Caltrain. Whoever thought the world needed yet another signalling system.......kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-1502423064586588762014-01-27T16:24:06.203-08:002014-01-27T16:24:06.203-08:00Indeed. Maybe it's my unfamiliarity with Amer...Indeed. Maybe it's my unfamiliarity with American signaling practices, but why the need for multiple signals on a massive gantry?- it's not like San Bruno is some junction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-47091545472301835832014-01-27T13:00:46.977-08:002014-01-27T13:00:46.977-08:00CBOSS ...
Isn't $250 million of Caltrain-spec...CBOSS ...<br /><br />Isn't $250 million of Caltrain-specific, Caltrain-unique, all-American, <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XbahXM_YRqg/TANPJqE4fiI/AAAAAAAAAYs/fhAeacLQoZE/s1600/cboss_display_unit.jpg" rel="nofollow">cardboard-compliant</a> Advanced In-Cab Control and Signalling supposed to do away with the need for lineside automatic block signals all over the place?<br /><br />I read of "getting rid of lineside signals" and "getting rid of cable ducts" as being selling points when other places talk about installing "Communications Based" (CB radio!) systems. So what's going on here?<br /><br />Maybe the CBOSS signal sheds will need to be <i>even larger</i> and <i>even more numerous</i> than those needed everywhere today to house the Advanced CTC Electronics required to drive 24 color lights and two track circuits? (The naive might think that that amount of logic would fit in a device that required an electron microscope to examine ...) Perhaps <a href="http://www.mountaincharlie1850.org/pl_santa_clara_tower.html" rel="nofollow">multi-story</a>? San Bruno's shed is more than half way there! Maybe the Communications Based cable ducts will be <i>even larger</i> than four inch diameter, and more numerous than San Bruno's meager pair, and even more galvanized than San Burno's? Maybe CBOSS radio antennas will be mounted on gantries even taller, wider, and more massive than the San Bruno LED Aspect Projection Super Support Uplift Facility. We can only dream!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-66959080962073454572014-01-27T12:07:55.970-08:002014-01-27T12:07:55.970-08:00@Joey, temporary support during the extension mayb...@Joey, temporary support during the extension maybe, but far from complete replacement, with the construction most likely taken one overnight work period to complete. All signal gantry that Caltrain had built in recent years is of the same type and design, only differ in span width to suit the sites.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-75149814358050619322014-01-26T12:54:30.260-08:002014-01-26T12:54:30.260-08:00I fail to see any modular design which would allow...I fail to see any modular design which would allow half of it to be taken down while leaving the other half up. The support tower could remain, but the entire span structure is going to have to be replaced.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-4469140334348835752014-01-24T15:15:23.757-08:002014-01-24T15:15:23.757-08:00@Joey: Yes, the side opposite of the signal house ...@Joey: Yes, the side opposite of the signal house will needed to be taken down, moved to the final 4-track location, and rebuild to span 4-tracks by inserting a new horizontal segment, but the half on the signal house side will likely see very little change.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-48501720092590375162014-01-16T13:26:29.131-08:002014-01-16T13:26:29.131-08:00William: the gantry is going to have to be rebuilt...William: the gantry is going to have to be rebuilt for 4 tracks anyway.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-33350022626138592182014-01-15T19:14:14.986-08:002014-01-15T19:14:14.986-08:00It looks to me as if the clearances around the sig...It looks to me as if the clearances around the signal hut are designed to meet Caltrain's engineering standard for signals.<br /><br />See page 15 of SD-5000S.pdf, drawing SD-5109.<br />http://www.caltrain.com/assets/_engineering/engineering-standards-2/Drawings/5000s/SD-5000S.pdf<br /><br />Other relevant Caltrain standards (I havent read them all yet)<br /><br /><br />Caltrain 2007 Engineering standards: <br />http://www.caltrain.com/about/doingbusiness/engineering/Engineering_Standards_and_Design_References.html<br /><br />Caltrain Enginnering Standards, 2nd Ed. 2011: <br />http://www.caltrain.com/about/doingbusiness/engineering/engineeringstandards.html<br /><br />Signal standards: http://www.caltrain.com/assets/_engineering/engineering-standards-2/Specs/Div18/Division18.pdf<br /><br />Anyway... Richard M. would be right at home here. Caltrain has a Book. Caltrain contracted the work at San Bruno, and I bet the contract says the work has to be to Caltrain's Book.<br /><br />The key issue is: who wrote the Book? Who has authority to ask for waivers in such cases? Who has the authority to grant waivers? If Clem is right, and the concrete "wings" were exorbitantly expensive, it's sure not in the contractor's interest to minimize cost.<br /><br />According to the minutes of Caltrain's board meeting of March 20, 2013, bids for San Bruno came in below the Engineer's estimate:<br />http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/__Agendas+and+Minutes/JPB/CAC/Minutes/2013/3-20-13+JPB+CAC+Minutes.pdf<br />kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-3407507466958905672014-01-15T14:55:27.403-08:002014-01-15T14:55:27.403-08:00Ridiculous! Like Joey, I see no reason why a gant...Ridiculous! Like Joey, I see no reason why a gantry is or was necessary.Reality Checknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-4966269418621907052014-01-15T13:37:33.806-08:002014-01-15T13:37:33.806-08:00Gantry was chosen most likely to accommodate futur...Gantry was chosen most likely to accommodate future 4-track expansion, of which another section would be added to the existing gantry so it would span 4 tracks.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234802218858306443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-8400795502831840292014-01-15T01:12:44.900-08:002014-01-15T01:12:44.900-08:00Is there some reason that wayside signals on simpl...Is there some reason that wayside signals on simple posts are insufficient? It seems like a simpler solution.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-30773770827876152642014-01-14T16:59:33.113-08:002014-01-14T16:59:33.113-08:00Clem,
where, exactly, do you see "scarce tax...Clem,<br /><br />where, exactly, do you see "scarce taxyayer dollars" being wasted? The marginal cost (per cubic yard) of the concrete you point out, looks miniscule. Exactly where is the money being wasted?<br /><br />Note that "I dont like the design, it looks wasteful" is not actual evidence of waste.<br /><br />kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-89277370199462882692014-01-14T15:37:35.713-08:002014-01-14T15:37:35.713-08:00One thing - the train control house could have eas...One thing - the train control house could have easily have been placed at grade, below the guideway. That's a simple start. Andy Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11544647421172474878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-40058589358229825312014-01-13T19:41:33.050-08:002014-01-13T19:41:33.050-08:00Clem, I'm sorry to contact you via this method...Clem, I'm sorry to contact you via this method, but wanted to let you know that there's a forthcoming book with a unique take on California HSR. Details can be found here: www.tomzoellner.com. Again, sorry for the cheesy way of sending you a message via comments; I couldn't find an email address. Cheers and keep up the good watchdogging. TomTom Zoellnerhttp://www.tomzoellner.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-28845631389598807032014-01-13T18:23:55.007-08:002014-01-13T18:23:55.007-08:00Where I come from it's called reading the blog...Where I come from it's called reading the blog post.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-67793913045490873412014-01-13T17:45:57.891-08:002014-01-13T17:45:57.891-08:00I see what looks like a graffit'ed signal-cabi...I see what looks like a graffit'ed signal-cabinet on the left at 00:59 and two on the right at 01:00. (guessing the smaller cabinet at 00:55 is a trackside phone?0<br /><br />I note that the signal gantries at 1:05 -- signals over both tracks, in both directions -- are actually two half-gantries. If you stop the video at 01:02, you can see the diagonal support for the right-side half-gantry. Due to the shadow, _I_ can't tell whether that's concrete, or a grey-painted steel beam or triangular plate.Given the age of the Berlin S-Bahn (there's a broader field-of-view at 00:57-00:58. Maybe I need a higher-res display than this old laptop.<br /><br />I'll hazard a guess that it's a steel I-beam, cut at the bottom to be flat against a plate bolted into the foundations. But I'm not a civil engineer. It might be concrete.<br /><br />Interesting to see the Ks-signal heads....kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419444332771213285.post-32313193084847376252014-01-13T17:32:46.961-08:002014-01-13T17:32:46.961-08:00Clem,
If you can't point out anything that...Clem,<br /><br />If you can't point out anything that's wrong, you don't get to say "it's clearly wrong". That's called begging the question.<br />kiwi.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215458981556481196noreply@blogger.com